[Cross-post] Palisade Podcast episode "How to Actually Influence AI Policy (No Law Degree Required) — with Matthew Lipka"

Palisade Research has launched a podcast series! I'll be hosting a series of episodes where I interview people who are experts in a functional or substantive area of DC policy, and ask them what this can teach us about how to do AI policy better. And @habryka recommended that I make this a top-level post for your awareness. A transcript of our episode is below. Matthew is one of my closest friends and a genius on how to do regulation both fast and well -- I'm really excited that I got to bring him on for this conversation. People occasionally ask me where we could get "another Dave" -- he's less deep on national security policy, but for anything regulatory, Congressional, or state-level, he's far more experienced. You can find the Palisade Research podcast on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or anywhere else you get your podcasts. Matthew Lipka is a partner at Catalyst Wayfare Partners, where he advises and invests in emerging technology companies in highly regulated spaces: autonomous vehicles, fusion energy, robotics, and AI. He was previously head of policy at Nuro, where he secured the first and only US Department of Transportation exemption for an autonomous vehicle and the first commercial autonomous vehicle deployment permit in California.[1] Before that he worked at McKinsey, at the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, and as chief of staff at the New York MTA. Dave Kasten, Palisade’s Head of Policy, talks with Matthew about what regulation actually is and how it gets made: the Administrative Procedure Act, notice and comment, OIRA review, and why a new federal rule now takes nine years on average when the highway regulator once adopted twenty standards in ten weeks. They then dig into what this means for AI: why existing authorities are more flexible than people assume, what agencies can do quickly in a genuine emergency through interim final rules and export controls, where regulation can and can’t address concentration of power, and why the AI policy community’s habit of writing long Google Docs misses the formal channels that actually move rules. Matthew closes with a practical case that anyone can submit a comment or request a meeting with OIRA, no law degree required. Transcript lightly edited for readability. Matthew: You can just do things regulatory edition: The process is set up specifically because we want public input. You can just submit that comment. You can just request a meeting with OIRA. You can request a meeting with the agency you don’t have to go to law school or be a DC lawyer in order to influence a regulation. Dave: Hi, and welcome to the Palisade Podcast. I’m Dave Kasten, Head of Policy at Palisade Research. Today, we’ve got a great episode for you. We’re joined by my very good friend, Matthew Lipka, who’s a partner at Catalyst Wayfare Partners, where he advises and invests in emerging technology companies in highly regulated spaces. That’s things like autonomous vehicles, fusion energy, robotics, and AI. Previously, he was head of policy at Nuro, which builds and deploys electric autonomous vehicles in partnership with companies like Uber. There, he oversaw federal, state, and local policy, government relations and public affairs, as well as the company’s sustainability program. In that role, he shaped national autonomous vehicle policy. He was the first and only person to get the US Department of Transportation to approve an exemption for an autonomous vehicle, the other guys weren’t able to get it, and the first commercial deployment permit granted in California for an autonomous vehicle and shaped the first federal rulemaking, which we’ll talk about in this episode, on autonomous vehicles. And he’s advocated for new regulation and legislation, federally and at the state and local levels. Prior to all of that, he led consulting teams for public and private sector clients, at McKinsey & Company. He worked on regulations at the White House. He served as a chief of staff at the New York MTA, and was a fellow for Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, of Rhode Island. Matthew holds a bachelor’s degree from Yale University, which is where he and I first met, and a JD from Harvard Law School. I think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation. So without further ado, let’s jump in. Matthew, thank you for being here. Matthew: Oh, thanks so much for having me. Great to be on. Dave: Why don’t we start by just talking a little bit about sort of your journey and how you got into being so focused on regulation? Matthew: Sure. So, I went to law school and had the opportunity to study under Cass Sunstein, who is the most prolific legal writer of all time. I think he’s 5 times as many citations as number 2. Dave: He was an LLM before there were LLMs. Matthew: [laughs] indeed... And in addition to that is brilliant and led the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, which is the most powerful office no one’s ever heard of, sometimes called the regulatory czar. And so